Furtherance of Discussion (Philosophy)

[gamgee]

I hate when you get like this.

I didn't want to derail the other thread, so I'll pose this question here:

Is it ever good to hate?

[Mayaca]

I didn't want to derail the other thread, so I'll pose this question here:

Is it ever good to hate?

Sometimes it is deeply satisfying.

[Smudge]

I didn't want to derail the other thread, so I'll pose this question here:

Is it ever good to hate?

Define "good".

I hate I'm not talking the tit for tat Internet epeen crap, I'm talking wouldn't piss in the general direct of a certain person if they were on fire kinda hate, piss on their grave and dance a jig kinda hate

It's a personal thing not a general thing, not a hatred born of ignorance or brainwashing but personal experience on a intimate level..

Is it "good"? I honestly don't know but I personally don't consider it bad, it just is what it is

[gamgee]

Define "good".

I hate I'm not talking the tit for tat Internet epeen crap, I'm talking wouldn't piss in the general direct of a certain person if they were on fire kinda hate, piss on their grave and dance a jig kinda hate

It's a personal thing not a general thing, not a hatred born of ignorance or brainwashing but personal experience on a intimate level..

Is it "good"? I honestly don't know but I personally don't consider it bad, it just is what it is

It's tough to define good without touching upon absolute morality, which I don't feel like getting into now.
I suppose we could define it as "that which is best", either for the one experiencing the emotion, for those affected by it, or for society in general. But then we have to define best.
Perhaps "that which has the most positive outcome".
But what is positive?
We sink into relativity.

[swampbilly]

gamgee

relatively speaking dat be relative, i speck

[Absolutely!]

It's tough to define good without touching upon absolute morality, which I don't feel like getting into now.
I suppose we could define it as "that which is best", either for the one experiencing the emotion, for those affected by it, or for society in general. But then we have to define best.
Perhaps "that which has the most positive outcome".
But what is positive?
We sink into relativity.

I like to define good as a term of obedience. Good is a word for children.

But taking the phrase 'is it good to hate' in a simple meaning without getting all semantic on its ass, I would say no, it is not good to hate.

Hate takes energy.

I'm not saying you should not shoot the rabid dog however. It's just that you shouldn't hate it while you shoot it. Even if it did kill your kid. Hate's personal. And almost never warranted.

[Harry Henderson]

Without experiencing hate, we cannot understand love. To assume otherwise is counter to the human condition. It is the same emotion physiologically for both.

[Absolutely!]

Without experiencing hate, we cannot understand love. To assume otherwise is counter to the human condition. It is the same emotion physiologically for both.

which chocolate box did you rip that off?

(she says, resorting quickly to personal insults. )

Nay but I think it's superficial and just jargon, proving that if you repeat some inanity often enough it comes into the common knowledge pool.

Love is a bonding. You are bonded to someone, you identify with them. it's two things glued together looking outward at the world and forging a future. It's not really even emotional. It's an identity thing. I do not end where you begin. You do not end where I begin. Your interests are my interests.

it's only emotional if it's threatened.

Hate, however, is a self indulgence. It's a different basis entirely. hatred is anger or resentment self-indulgently turned septic. And anger is a hurt response.

so you could say that hatred is a response to threatened love or harmed love, but it's only one of a million responses. it's its own thing. It does not come from harm; it comes from your own personality, as to how self indulgent you like to be, whether you love the sense of righteous excitement and utter cant or not. do you love the thrill of us/them? Do you get off on swearing at people? it's all that stuff.

So they are 100% fundamentally different in basis. they have nothing to do with each other except occasionally a common trigger. But you don't need that common trigger for hatred (eg racial hatred). All you need is a target and a love of self-aggrandisement.

I think if we learn to identify our emotions using more than three words, actually learn extra words like 'resentful' or 'dismayed' then we find that most of us don't hate.

[Mayaca]

Hate, however, is a self indulgence. actually learn extra words like 'resentful' or 'dismayed' then we find that most of us don't hate.

Ummmmm I indulge hate on rare occasion. And I am not remorseful about it. When I hate, it is for solid well earned reasons.


I think we set unreasonable expectations on our emotions and understandings. We say "no one should hate" or ever have rage, etc.

Some people are hate worthy. Some situations suck and should earn anger, even rage. I only feel the emotions I was designed to feel. If I feel them when appropriate and not in the wrong timing, then I think there is nothing wrong with it.

All things in their season and all that.


I know I told this before but tough. Story time with Uncle Mayaca....


Used to run a health food store. Had a lady in her 50's drag a much older lady in and start yelling for help finding "mood boosters". She wanted me to tell the older lady (her mom) to take St. John's Wort and Sam-e.

I asked what was going on, and the older lady said "Well, my husband of 55 years passed, and ever since I have been sort of blue."

"I am so sorry for your loss ma'am," says I . "How long ago did this happen?" "TWO WEEKS!" yells the daughter "And she STILL won't cheer up!"

I held the old lady's hand and said "You know, after 55 years, it is okay to feel sad about your loss. It would be weird not to."

To the daughter I said "You know, nothing I or a medical doctor sells can make someone rebound from a loss like that in two weeks. Being depressed when you should be is not clinical depression like you should medicate."

She got in a huff and pulled her mom out of the store to "go see my competition" across the hall.

The old lady looked back from the door and said "thank you young man." I almost cried.




Anyway. Fuck all this emotionalism and serious talk............. Last adult post from me tonight I promise.......

[Absolutely!]

Rage isn't hate.
Anger isn't hate.
disgust isn't hate.

Hate is really strong. I don't think many of us hate for real. I spose I'm the one playing semantics after all: because I might know a few people who in a perfect world I would cull, but I don't hate them. I just want them gone.

I would weed them out. Maybe it's the gardener in me. I don't hate, I just remove.

[Harry Henderson]

I hate that I have felt love,
A passion relentless,
I love that I can hate,
An endearment of resentment.

Love is fleeting, a captured affair,
Hate is seeding, each spiteful stare.
To hate or love is pure desire,
You raze or romance with the same fire.

But most of all I hate to love the things I know I shouldn't
To take a chance of broken hearts on someone you usually wouldn't

~Harold J Henderson Esq.~

[Absolutely!]

I should also say that 'good' can take 2 meanings.

1. moral

2. expedient

I therefore wish to qualify what I say.

I find it inexpedient to hate. i find it timewasting, a use of energy I don't have to spare. Hatred is exhausting. I don't have what it takes. It's also distracting. You can't follow the ball if you are staring at that soccer player who just fucked you over. Keep your eye on the ball. Focus on your legitimate aims. The point in life is to win, not to fail with a chip on your shoulder blaming someone else.

As to morality of hatred. That's like asking about the morality of sneezing. it's 100% beside the point and irrelevant.

People like to make moral issues out of things that are not moral issues. Partly to have something to chunter about down the pub (oh that arsehole he did x, y, z. oh did he? yes, yes he did! oh that's disgusting oh what a pig. oh my god... etc etc.)

and partly because it makes them important. If I have these moral values then I am important. I mean something. My sacrifices mean something.

having been raised by a raging moralist philosopher steeped in fucking ethics, I reject the entire shitbag. As far as I am concerned, if it is going towards my survival: it is good.

If it inhibits my survival: it is bad.

Morality can go shove a corncob up its arse.

[Mayaca]

As far as I am concerned, if it is going towards my survival: it is good.

If it inhibits my survival: it is bad.

Morality can go shove a corncob up its arse.

So if HATE can fuel your drive to survive ("I have to live so that I can make that mofo pay!!!!") then hate is good. I am glad we finally agree.

[Absolutely!]

So if HATE can fuel your drive to survive ("I have to live so that I can make that mofo pay!!!!") then hate is good. I am glad we finally agree.

Haha

Having to live so you can make that mofo pay is a distraction. it really is. The winning state to be in is where you deem them irrelevant. When you live to punish them their existence is still controlling your actions.

Which is against one of my few remaining values that aren't 100% fucking consequentialist, that of autonomy.

I like my choices to be mine. not skewed or warped by someone else. If I am doing something in reaction to someone else, I am not actually forging my own path. I will fuck up, in short. I will not be going where I want to.

Where would I have wanted to go if that person hadn't fucked me over? That is the question. That is where i want to go. I want the destructive influence of that person on my life minimised, not glorified and plated in gold.

[Mayaca]

Haha

Having to live so you can make that mofo pay is a distraction.

BUT it could be a useful distraction. If it keeps you empowered to continue fighting to live. Down the road you can get all enlightened and shit. But the premise was that Hate could be good. I believe I have offered sufficient evidence that it could be so.

LOL


Consider this if you want to twist your moral precepts.............


If you could go back in time and use a sniper rifle just before some perv rapes a child, would you?






What if that child BECAUSE of what happened dedicates their life to helping battered and abused women and children.
One of the lives that is literally SAVED turns out to be a future doctor who invents a cure for AIDS/ Cancer/ whatever.

Millions are saved because of the one life lived "damaged."

Do you ever come to a point where you say..... "I COULD go back in time and stop it, but I like the results....."